GH copilot takes 

Having read and thought about a lot of the takes out there, I can't see anything happening except...

1) Free software orgs myopically focusing on licenses. Using copyright maximalism & new license terms in a failed attempt to neuter fair use arguments.

2) Yet more fragmentation of FOSS over yet more licenses.

3) Nobody really making headway on attacking the serious moral and societal issues inherent in copilot style AI models, within the reach of only $$$$$ corps.

GH copilot takes 

@dctrud Hmmmm, I've just reread this which seems related: rfleury.com/p/the-gullible-sof

I kept my browserengine projects off of GitHub from the start since these centralized silos are the cause of the majority of the hurdles for those projects. Despite GitHub placing relatively few hurdles I did not want to feed into the silo mindset...

GH copilot takes 

@dctrud And yeah, I don't place much faith in licenses. In the modern landscape of cloud-services & locked-down devices I far from see them as cure-alls many seem to view them as. Not to mention the issue of software complexity...

I do like the suggestion in that article: How do we rely less on society & the state to protect our personal property IRL? We move it all into our own homes. The same can be done for our code!

GH copilot takes 

@alcinnz fwiw I am rather in favor of society and state protecting my property.

The article has a very libertarian angle to it, which is not what I believe in at all.

GH copilot takes 

@dctrud Oh, and I should say: I'm neither here nor there about Copilot. But I do dislike the centralization of our free software community on a silo, aren't we meant to be against silos?

GH copilot takes 

@alcinnz @dctrud

I'm just a passer-by on my morning coffee, not well-informed and IANAL. From dctrud's view I deduce that:

OSS can be ingested on basis of fair use, the ML/AI cannot be copyrighted, and its output is public domain. Using ML this way is not unethical. Free trained networks are our way forward.

Taking that as given, with all FOSS protected by copyright law, does seem this protection is now void.

And we compete based on "open" vs. proprietary, billion-dollar AI?

GH copilot takes 

@alcinnz @dctrud

Fully IANAL philosophical showerthoughts.

Let's consider a trained AI to be an expert programmer. They are like workers that are hired. Scalable, they're an army of workers, replacing human tasks.

Their work is similar to human devs. They look at stackoverflow and codebases to inspire their coding, then hand it over to regular devs to be further integrated.

But they happen to copy/paste verbatim copyrighted sources at times. Is that fair? Should we allow it?

re: GH copilot takes 

@humanetech @alcinnz @dctrud > They are like workers that are hired.

Laws around “works for hire” come with their own copyright baggage that assumes workers are actual people; for instance, these laws include mechanisms by which workers can claim copyright themselves.

I’m not opposed to the general principle of training a model on copyrighted works potentially being fair use; however, the generated works would need to be sufficiently novel or seemingly “creative” by human standards for it to work. Otherwise, you’re in “derived work” territory. This, I think, is a major difference between the likes of DALL-E and Midjourney, and the likes of Copilot.

I personally found all the discourse way too hilarious, and wrote a satirical article on it only to get clobbered by Poe’s Law: An experiment to test GitHub Copilot’s legality.

#POSSE note from https://seirdy.one/notes/2022/07/20/re-gh-copilot-takes/

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re: GH copilot takes 

@Seirdy I'm not so sure there is such a *major* difference between copilot and things like DALL-E here.

Ask a powerful AI image generation model to generate "Homer Simpson eating a donut". That, and what you get is likely fairly close to prompting copilot to regurgitate a famous algorithm, with some variables renamed.

It's not exactly the same, but this is a difficult area across domains.

@alcinnz @humanetech

re: GH copilot takes 

@Seirdy at least some of this image generation example, seems to me very close to the bit that includes prompting for the zen of python with a comment, and copilot regurgitating it.

@alcinnz @humanetech

re: GH copilot takes 

@dctrud @alcinnz @humanetech These aren't actual scenes from the show, even if they are in the likeness of the show's characters. Fan-made art of a copyrighted work is typically fine.

Things get really messy when trademarks enter the picture, though.

re: GH copilot takes 

@Seirdy but these aren't fan art, made by a human fan. If you stuck them in a book that you then claimed copyright on, and distributed, then it's a lot like including some of the copilot output in software you distribute.

Fair use is complex, and not uniform across countries. The point I'm trying to make really is that none of this is clear or simple, for code or otherwise. Will need testing in court.

@alcinnz @humanetech

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